Hear Him Heal You
This podcast is for those who are looking to experience the Savior more in their lives because of the peace and healing that only He can offer through revelation. Come unto Christ to get out of the mental mire, find meaning in emotion, leave bad behind, and finally, be whole. This is where we hear Him to be healed.
Hear Him Heal You
Careful...it might just be a Cult
What if the biggest threats to your faith aren't other religions, but the everyday things competing for your attention and loyalty? From sports fandoms and social media platforms to workplace cultures and political affiliations, Morgan and Joel explore how modern "cults" subtly shape our identities and priorities without us realizing it.
The conversation begins with a provocative question: What makes something a cult? Beyond the stereotypical religious connotations, cult-like attributes manifest in surprising places—authoritarian leaders who can't be questioned, manipulation of emotions and behaviors, isolation from outsiders, and demands for total loyalty. Sound familiar? These patterns appear everywhere from Instagram algorithms designed to hijack your attention to professional environments that convince you success isn't possible elsewhere.
Most revealing is how these influences don't suddenly replace our faith but gradually crowd it out. Just as ancient Israelites tried integrating idol worship alongside their devotion to God, we often don't notice when our priorities shift away from Christ. The distinction between "Mormonism" as a cultural identity versus following Jesus Christ becomes crucial—when religion becomes about perfectionism and judgment rather than love and growth, it transforms into something that pushes people away rather than drawing them closer to God.
This thought-provoking episode offers practical wisdom: simply deleting distractions without changing our hearts creates temporary change at best. What if instead we replaced scrolling time with service to others? What if we prioritized scripture study before checking work emails? As Joel and Morgan vulnerably share their own struggles to keep God first, they remind us that being imperfect believers striving to follow Christ is exactly where most of us find ourselves.
Join the conversation and share how you're working to ensure God remains your priority amid life's many competing voices. What modern "cult" do you need to step back from this week?
Welcome to Hear Him. Heal you with Morgan and Joel. This podcast is for those that are imperfect, rough around the edges, but are still wanting to come unto Christ. Join us to get out of the mental mire by meeting an emotion and leave bad behind. This is where we hear him to be healed. Hear him to be healed.
Speaker 1:All right Joel so this thought has been like running through my head over the last week or so. So, as you know, I spent a lot of time in the car over the last couple of weeks. I went to California and back driving, which is like a 10 hour car ride, and then I had to drive up to Wyoming for my brother's farewell over the weekend and back and Rory, my girlfriend she introduced me to a podcast that I thought was like like one of the funniest things, but it also like kind of like mess with my mind a little bit too.
Speaker 1:So it's a podcast called sounds like a cult and so basically, this whole podcast is about them picking these groups of people and being like is it a cult or is it not?
Speaker 1:and if it, is do you go on with your life or do you get the heck out, type of thing, and, um, some of the ones we listened to was like the cult of harry potter. Another one was the cult of the cia, other ones that were on there that we didn't listen to and was like the cult of jeep owners there, ones that were on there that we didn't listen to and what's like the cult of Jeep owners.
Speaker 2:There was so much more. I like, definitely like, if anything, if anything in this world is a cult, it is. Jeep owners Jeep owners.
Speaker 1:Yeah, dude, they got those like little tiny ducks that they leave for each other. I don't know.
Speaker 2:It's the most odd thing I've ever seen out of the car community.
Speaker 1:I don't know Taco, like Taco Bros of the car community I don't know, taco like taco bros dude.
Speaker 2:Pretty bad too.
Speaker 1:That's, that's up there yeah, well, the and I guess the thing that it kind of hit me was like our, is mormonism a cult? You know like is? Being a member of our church a cult and I actually that's not really gonna be like the whole premise of of what I want to talk, but it did also make me realize that, like there is a lot of things out there that are competing for our time, our energy and our beliefs, and I guess it's like is everything a cult?
Speaker 1:Do and we need, do we need to be careful? Do we need to really like be cognizant of how much it's influencing our lives and, if so, if it is influencing our, what are the like, the cautions or or the dangers of, of doing so, you know?
Speaker 2:yeah, I agree, and I think one thing we got to do is kind of like define cult, because that's thrown around so much like oh, mormonism such a cult. You guys are so controlling about what you can do with your lifestyle and your body and yada, yada, you know. So I feel like that gets overly, like over overused. It's kind of it's like a scare tactic, like a scare word to like try to dissuade people from looking into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints by throwing around that little cliche like oh, mormonism is such a cult. And I think if you look at the definition of cult, it's just like a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object. Religious veneration and devotion directed to a particular figure or object. Typically we associate that in a negative way, but by definition it's not. But just with our modern culture it has become a very negative term.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would also say like it doesn't even have to be like a thing or a person. It could also be like a set of beliefs that a group holds right. Yeah, a set of ideals and, and I would say, like there is a lot of groups socially that could fall under a cultish behavior right um, because, like some, of the qualities that I looked up from once I listened to this podcast and you know, chat gbt is like literally my best friend. Now, like joel, it might replace you one of these days.
Speaker 2:So just saying.
Speaker 1:Understandable. But some of the qualities that me and Chad GBT discuss were like one is authoritarian leadership, so one leader or small group has total control and it's not to be questioned Right. Another one is manipulation and control, so members of that cult heavily influence our emotions, our psyche, our social behaviors, and there can be instances where it even influences financially right, and then it can even like, have an element of isolation as well, and sometimes these groups demand loyalty and obedience or total commitment above all else.
Speaker 1:And there's always this idea too where it's like it's us versus the world, or us versus them Like if you're with them, you're against us type of type of thing.
Speaker 2:Okay, I got to get this off my chest. What was that? First one, you kind of read off Authoritarian leadership. And then the second part to go with it. The next part.
Speaker 1:Manipulation and control Okay.
Speaker 2:Maybe it's not those parts. What was the one you said about?
Speaker 1:like you can't question, or Demand like basically the idea is, they demand loyalty and obedience, like total commitment um there was one that kind of sounded like you always said, like infallibility, like you can't question their yeah, yeah, like um but yeah, basically you can't like, it is authoritarian leadership. You, you can't question like their ideas or or what they're doing. Right, I have to get this off my chest.
Speaker 2:We are called a cult more than any other religion out there. We do not believe in prophetic or scriptural infallibility. We do not, okay. We believe in receiving witnesses through the spirit. We believe in personal revelation. We believe in looking at the cumulative work that God has given to his children, to the children of men, and then making sure that it is consistent. If you talk to an evangelical who believes solo scripture, you cannot question the Bible. You can't even hint that the Bible may have some gray areas. If that is an authoritative and like, oh my gosh, I can't get over that we strike a chord with you, Joel.
Speaker 2:I can't stand it, they call us a cult, but I've never seen more cultish behavior than those who just follow Sola Scriptura.
Speaker 1:I just don't get it.
Speaker 2:I don't see how it doesn't connect to them that the same way they claim we are a cult is the same behavior they are actually doing towards the same attributes they have towards the Bible.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Well, I will agree with you, like sometimes I it does annoy me when people are like a Mormonism, the cult, and it's like you know, if it is and it very well could be, like I'm not I'm not trying to argue the cult thing, but I'm like it's brought so much positivity and so much happiness and guidance in my life that I would be, would be like my life would be a vacuum without it.
Speaker 1:You know, there would be a lot of other things that I would have like struggled on and felt lost with if I hadn't been a part or born into this religion. Right, and I think you bring up a good point, like sometimes when people like, say like, or you see something online that's like your church is a cult, or even like X members say that a lot, right.
Speaker 2:Like I have.
Speaker 1:I've heard my brother and my sister in law say those type of things and and I am like I really don't believe that, Like I don't, and yet there has been some elements of that, but like honestly, as I go down that, like I don't think we have leadership in the church that asks us to ask questions, to go to God, to pray about the things they say. When they say manipulation and control, I don't feel manipulated. I feel like I'm choosing the things that I want to be doing.
Speaker 2:And if anything, my religion doesn't isolate me.
Speaker 1:It actually drives me towards being with other people and reaching out beyond myself, right.
Speaker 2:Just as we can't dismiss the experiences of those who had a negative experience with the church growing up, because everyone does have an individual experience. I've met people and I've heard their stories Like, if you've ever read the book Educated by Tara Westover, right, that's not a good experience with the church, right, that is very cult behavior and that's not encouraged by the leadership of the church.
Speaker 2:But just as we can't dismiss their negative experiences, they can't dismiss our positive experiences. It's not fair that if it's only a, it's not a one-way street right, this has to be reciprocated both ways. They can't sit there and say, well, this is such a terrible cult that ruins people's lives and well, this has built up my family and my life more than anything else, has right More than anything. No-transcript.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I mean, I had such a positive and good experience with the church that you know. I feel that's just as valid as someone who's had a negative experience.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I do think it is a very valid thing to do is to flip that question back on other people and be like like what me? What do you have to prove that this is that that what you're participating in isn't a cult, or that what we have isn't a cult?
Speaker 2:And I guess what I really want to get to is not.
Speaker 1:is Mormonism a cult? It's that everything can become a cult in our daily lives and the reason. I go over that because you kind of brought it up at the beginning. Like cult is an overused word. It has a very loose definition. People think they know what it means and what it looks like, and really all they do.
Speaker 2:When people use the word cult it's like to convey criticism or inspire hate or even like ostracize a group of people from being mainstream you know, and I guess, it's just like one of those things that we we really have to come to grips with when I being a member of the church, right, but I also think just from this podcast, like it made me open my eyes, like I don't know, joel, what are some some cults that you feel are like some things you participate in or are part of.
Speaker 1:That like verge on the uh being a cult right, being an Ohio state fan Just kidding, I do have a Utah flag back there.
Speaker 2:I'm not a fanatic but I do like to represent the states that I currently live in, but no, I am an Ohio state fanatic. I don't know anything beyond that. We are a Colt and we're proud of that, and we're a national title winning Colt, so deal with it. No.
Speaker 2:I would say, there's so many things that can become cult or where you become part of a group. Think For me, something I used to struggle with in the past was really in politics, right, I used to be like this headstrong conservative. You know I would defend any other conservative, any belief, you know, and I feel like I had to adopt their ideas and beliefs into my system and learn how to fit them into my religious system right and how do?
Speaker 2:I fit this, you know, rectify these beliefs with my religion.
Speaker 2:You know these political beliefs with my religious beliefs, and I had to realize that that's not what's most important. Right that I don't have to adopt all those thoughts and beliefs and learning that my number one priority is to be in line with God and no one else. Right that I have to care more about what my Heavenly Father thinks about me and what he wants for me than anyone else. And since then I've felt Him soften my heart a lot and open my mind to see things as he would and to take a much more moderate and a much more loving approach to how I feel things should be done. Right, and I think that's just one big example in my life where I was changed. Right and realize like, oh my gosh, this really is like a cult following and I'm like I needed to like wake up and get out of that and realize that's not what needs to be the main control for my life. And then, on a more funny note, I would say any kind of group you, I see this on Instagram.
Speaker 2:There's these little like clicks right, whether that's like the fishing community on Instagram, right? Or whether that's like the hunting community or like all these groups, right. And they all have their little clicks that make fun of the other ones. Right. Like us guys who like to shore fish with our spin reels right. We're always making fun of the fly fishermen and the bass fishermen and all their thousands and thousands of dollars of gear and everything. Right, and we all make fun of each other and pick at each other but it's all we all hold true, that ours is the true way to do it.
Speaker 2:you know, yeah, a hundred percent.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's true. You see that a lot online where like and it's always like if someone tries to like convey an opinion that's like contrary to that group, everyone.
Speaker 1:just there's a huge backlash in those, in those cliques or communities, right, and that's where, like you can kind of see some of this cultish behavior come out and, um, and I was thinking back through my life of things that like a big one that I'm like man that was kind of a cult was doing door-to-door and like everyone door to door thinks they know what they're doing. Everyone, everyone says like, oh, you got to, you got to invest in this type of stuff. When you're doing door to door, like there's no other type of sales beyond this, you'll never be successful outside of of door to door because, like this is the ultimate sale, this is the hardest sale you know.
Speaker 2:And I realized, like because I was kind of consumed, in that I believed a lot of those things. And, funny enough, after leaving door to door and I was successful in it like relatively right, I actually ended up making more money and I actually had a better life and enjoyed my time more outside of door to door. Not saying I didn't learn anything good, but there was a lot of those attributes like authoritarian leadership.
Speaker 1:They definitely manipulated us to make us stay, and sometimes with contracts and payment, and then even like you felt isolated, like you, you, you can't, you're not good enough to go anywhere else, you shouldn't go anywhere else, type of stuff.
Speaker 1:And I see this over and over again as well with with other things I'm trying to like social media, I think is social media is a big one. Like if you don't have social media, joel, nowadays you're weird. Like if you grew up having social media and you're, as a teenager, right, and I was one thing like. I don't, I'm not like and you know this. I'm very much far removed from social media.
Speaker 1:Obviously, we use Instagram for this podcast, but other than that I haven't posted on my Instagram maybe in a year or two now, or yeah, like it's just like. I see a lot of those things with social media to like you can't like. The algorithms are meant to manipulate and control you. They're meant to isolate you. They didn't like. They're always using notifications and these likes and clickbait to demand your loyalty and obedience to the app. They have and we'll get to this part now. They have all these idols that you should follow and you got to keep up with the trends, right, and I just. It just has made me really open my eyes. Like man, I need to do a better job of making sure that I'm not supplanting God with some of these idols and engaging in some cultish behavior, right, amen?
Speaker 2:I think there's so many times like we think in the church, like at least we're not like the Catholics with their statues to Mary, right, and we don't pray to our crosses right, we pray to God only. But you know, we let things distract us outside of our religious practices, right, that are much worse, right. So I've been studying a lot about the Old Testament, especially in the Hebrew Bible, understanding the Canaanite religions and the other religions surrounding that Near East area, and something I didn't realize is they didn't believe that the statue was God or their God, right, they just believed it was a symbol of their God, right, and their God kind of traveled with them.
Speaker 2:It was regional, right, anyways, that's why the children of Israel would constantly adopt these new idols and these new gods right, Because they moved quite around a bit, quite around, moved around quite a bit. There we go, anyways, when they came into the land of the Canaanites, they kind of wanted to fit in, and sometimes we want to fit in, and so in order to do that, we say, oh, I'm going to keep my beliefs, but I'm going to add in some new things as well, right, it?
Speaker 2:wasn't like they just went straight to Baal worship right or Asherah worship Right, and actually those aren't the names of those Canaanite gods, those are the titles of them, but anyways, it wasn't like they just went straight into that it's.
Speaker 2:They integrated that into what they were doing and so I think they weren't even aware that they had truly corrupted their religion and it truly, you know, violated the commandments of God. I think they were so oblivious to the fact that they wanted to fit in, they wanted to somewhat integrate with these new peoples as they came into the land of the Canaanites and they were trying to figure out how do I have good relations with this neighboring city over here but also keep the commandments of my God and offer sacrifices?
Speaker 2:Oh what if I bring just a little idol into my little high place and my little tabernacle here in my city and I offer sacrifices to both, I'll give the bigger one to Yahweh, but I'm going to offer to no. That's not right, and so I think we try to do that today right, where it's like we have our beliefs and we have these people influence us. We want to fit in, we want to be a part of the, of the, of the groups and cliques that are cool and popular, and we try to integrate them in. So I'm still going to have God as my highest priority, but I'm also going to put you know I'm put Taylor Swift up in here too, right?
Speaker 1:Or that now that's a cult, Okay, but no, anyways. So as you.
Speaker 2:You see what I'm getting at. It's like it's not that we replace God, it's that we try to add something underneath but ultimately God said there's no other gods before me. Before means in front of right.
Speaker 1:And there's also in that verse in Isaiah, that says and after me, which means behind me, he goes.
Speaker 2:There's nothing around me that you worship, right, it's solely me. I am your creator, I am your father, I am the one you worship, yeah.
Speaker 1:No, I think you're right, it has transformed. Idols haven't gone away, they have transformed and I actually think they're louder than ever because they have kind of embedded themselves into our culture, into our daily lives. Like, um, I was just thinking like man, like sometimes sports can be that I'm adopting some of their beliefs, like I can't miss my football game on sundays, right, or like even trying to think of other other things, or like there's these smart people whose channels I follow and I'm, like I do like some of their ideas, you know and it's like, and I'm not saying, like I believe in them, but I do feel like.
Speaker 1:I'm like is that 100% in line with what the the church teaches, or or my over listening to their opinions versus God's opinion. You know, like or or like, sometimes, like I can make my idol, my job or the money I'm trying to make Right, and so there's this priority of like. I'm successful and righteous if I am making X amount of money or I'm X successful or whatever.
Speaker 1:And then these things start to become part of my identity Right, and then these things start to become part of my identity right and then like, obviously, a group of belief and I put emotions around those things because they have some importance in my life. And I'm realizing slowly, you're right, it's kind of corrupting how I view God, how I engage with God, and at some points.
Speaker 1:I completely forget, and none of us are immune to that, you know, and I always have to go like you know, and I always have to go like I always feel like I always have to. I have these realizations and I'll go through and be like, okay, I'm deleting all these apps, I'm going to get back on track with reading the scriptures every day, I'm going to do all these like habits again, and and I it's just like I think those times are good, I think when we have those realizations and we go like full on like cannonball back into the gospel right.
Speaker 1:I think those are good, but it would be nice if I didn't have to like rehaul my life every once a year, every couple of years, right Do you know, that's the exact story of the Israelites, with King Josiah right and King Hezekiah right.
Speaker 2:These were two major reformists around the time of Lehi and Isaiah right, so started at Isaiah's time. Josiah was towards the beginning of Lehi's years, right, and what did they do? They were like oh, the people are off track, we need to. And this is the story, the narrative. I'm not saying this is what actually happened or I agree with what they did, because I believe the Book of Mormon paints a different picture than what the Bible does of what was going on at that time. But the story in the Bible is basically that, oh, there's all these idols in the temples and tabernacles of Yahweh and, just to be clear, yahweh is Jehovah right? That's kind of the Hebrew pronunciation.
Speaker 2:Anyways so what? King Hezekiah and Josiah?
Speaker 2:did and they're actually related. Hezekiah was, I believe, the great-grandfather or grandfather of Josiah, but what happened is they went and they purged all the idols. They got rid of all the idols, right? And then they built up the temple again and then they urged people to start offering sacrifices to the Lord again and all these different things, right? And it's just like you said. I go and delete all the apps, I start studying my scriptures and saying my prayers again and making sure I'm on time for my church meetings, right.
Speaker 2:And what happens every time? They fall back into apostasy. Every time, because they may have changed their surrounding, but they had not changed their hearts. Their hearts were still hardened. They may have eliminated some things, but they had not truly desired a change. Now, what was different for Lehi and his family that was different than the other Israelites at their times? Lehi and his family look forward to their redemption through the Messiah and not the law, right, and not being strict adherence to the law. And so sometimes we think it's all the laws and these rules we need to make for ourselves, right, when it's really our heart needs to change, to want salvation from God and not from anything else.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, that definitely spoke to me like well, let me put it like this. So I think, when we I think like we always fall into certain things I should say like liking things, or following certain thoughts and opinions because they speak to a part of us, it gives us validation in some type of way, or or it gives us excitement and happiness. And I think that's how it starts like we might just be missing something and instead of looking for that missing piece in God, we turn to these, I would say, easier places to feel fulfillment, right, rather than doing the work that it takes to have God fill that hole in our lives, right.
Speaker 1:And that's how it starts we start looking for all these things and really if we just went to God, went to the source, then he would fill up our cup, he would make it so we wouldn't need to be reliant on these things, and that's a lesson.
Speaker 1:I'm still learning, I'm still trying to figure out how to make that my gut reaction. But I do know that, like when I feel the most lost or I feel like I am crowding out God with all these opinions, because I'm missing something. And I think Elder Max Nellie Maxwell had a great quote about this and he said to make God of heaven a distant leader is to set oneself on a calamitous course of self-deception and self-justification. And I think that's what happens is we're like he said, we're kind of putting priorities above God, we're pushing him out, we're pushing him further and further away until he becomes this distant voice, this distant leader.
Speaker 1:And slowly we were just like man it's okay for me to skip church on Sundays to watch a game, or it's okay for me to kind of engage in this ideology that actually has no place with, or can't coexist with, my beliefs, or I'm going to make this person everything I'm about, rather than making Christ everything I'm about. Right, like we talk about being fans of Taylor Swift. Obviously, I think Taylor Swift is the easiest one to talk about, but I think there's plenty of us out there.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I have a little analogy because, as we were talking about the idols and about deleting apps, right, how they would just get rid of them and start over, right, and slowly it comes back each time I think what, what's what's easier, morgan, to delete an app off your phone, or to go take an hour and a half or two hours out of your day to go and donate time, to go do family history work, or to go to the Bishop's storehouse or to go to your local food pantry, right, like what, what's what's easier to do? Delete an app. We feel justified that I did a good thing, right, because I eliminated. Well, how about you delete that app and then take the time you would sorry? What if you delete the app and take the time you would have spent on that app serving someone?
Speaker 2:It's just like fast offerings, right, when we give that fast offering, that money that we give, we take. Or when we fast, right, we take the money we would have spent on food and give it as an offering to help feed someone else. So what if we do that? The same way? What if we take the time we were spending and say, oh, I just have all this free time. Now what's going to happen? You're going to fill it right back up with the same bad crap and filth you had before. You didn't fix anything.
Speaker 2:You're still a part of the idol worship. You're still a part of the cult, right? You need to change your heart. You got to go out there and do something now, at that time that you just created for yourself. And guess who's guilty of this? This guy. I am so guilty of this right, When's the last?
Speaker 2:I can't tell you the last time I went and did something like that and I was like it's easy to sit here and talk about it too. But now I'm like reflecting, I'm like man, what if I went out and did that? I bet I'd feel so much happier that day If, when I I'm like oh, I have nothing to do today. I had to leave all the apps off my phone. What am I?
Speaker 1:going to do.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, typically Joel just goes fishing, right. But what if I went out and just gave an hour and a half to go serve someone, or went and visited someone I hadn't seen at church in a while? Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so that's kind of the thoughts I had.
Speaker 2:That's kind of the analogy I had connecting those ideas.
Speaker 1:I do think you're a hundred percent right, like I and I, I, we, I always come back to this concept when we, when we're, when we talk about things because, like I, I, the reason we started this podcast was because we needed to discuss some of these things. We needed to say I'm an imperfect member, but I'm trying to still figure this out. Right, and I think that is where most, like 99%, of members find themselves is like I'm an imperfect member. I know I'm supposed to be doing all these things. I know I'm engaging in cults, modern day cults and modern day idols but I like them.
Speaker 2:I don't want to give them up but I also want to be close to God and I think like I think we're doing this podcast, like this episode, specifically because we need it and I don't think that's it.
Speaker 1:I think this is a great reminder for us to go through our lives and be like. I need to remove those. I need to change my heart because right now it's replacing God, is replacing Christ, and it's not filling up my cup, it's not bringing me happiness, it's distracting me from the misery right, but it's not solving it, it's not fixing it and it's not making the misery or the problems we have go away and one thing I also want to bring up is like there's a difference between Mormonism and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Speaker 1:They're very distinct, different things and I'm really glad that President Nielsen has been trying to create this movement within members to view themselves as members of God's church, of Jesus Christ's church, rather than being members of Mormonism.
Speaker 2:I totally agree, I had a hard time with that because, growing up outside of Utah as a young boy, up until the time that I was 12, I lived in North Carolina and right in the heart of the devil's belly I was right there in the Bible Belt, and something that was so cool is I got to be unique. Right, I was different. Yeah, I was a Mormon. Right, I'm not like you, I'm different, right, and everyone knew it. And then I was proud of that fact too, that I was a Mormon.
Speaker 2:And then, all of a sudden, president Nelson comes out and says we need to refer to the church by its proper name, we need to refer to ourselves as our proper names, that we are Latter-day Saints, that we are the saints and that we are members of Christ's church, not Mormons. And it was really hard because I'm like I've identified with this idea so long, right, and I still struggle with this in my terminology and the way I speak. But realizing that I need to identify with Christ first, you know, and as one of his saints, before anything else, was something that was really hard for me to like. Not that idea. But it was giving up that title, right, giving up that idol of Mormonism, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I will say I will agree and this is controversial. But Mormonism is a cult. When we start to make our identity outside of Christ, like you said, it supplants him. It removes the heart and soul of Christ out of our lives. And I think the culture of Mormonism, where we're a perfectionistic society, there's no room for sinners. We make living the law or the commandments, our salvation right and our identity like I'm more righteous because I do X, y, z or I have a family that has all served missions, and I will say like when we start to hold on to those things and begin to judge others so that out group, it's us versus them, right Mentality, we can start to really ostracize people, not of our faith, we can make people's opinions or when people are questioning the gospel, we can become authoritarians of Mormonism and like, no, you can't question my religion, right? And then we use kind of like this shame culture to manipulate and control people and all that does is push them away when, like when, like God or Christ, he's not about.
Speaker 1:He wants us to bring our questions to him. He wants us to be open and honest with how we are feeling with him. He also doesn't want to manipulate, manipulate and control us, because the only thing we can give to God is our agency. He wants nothing more than for us to use our agency to choose him.
Speaker 1:He doesn't want people who are forced to believe in him and at the end of the day, like when people are engaging in that type of attitude of like judging and criticizing others because they don't fit the Mormon mold, we just isolate ourselves as a group of people. We're not bringing people into church, we're not welcoming people. And so I just wanted to put that out there because, like there is the difference. I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ Joel yes, I struggle.
Speaker 1:I have my things. I'm not the perfect Mormon, but I'm trying to be the perfect follower of Christ and that is someone who struggles, repents, loves others, invites others to come unto Christ and kind of like you said we were talking about, like what is the opposite of a cult? It's religion, Exactly.
Speaker 2:Something that I think is special. A cult seeks to empower people by putting others down and keeping people subjugated to them. Right, in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I received the same ordinances as the Savior did, the same ordinances as the prophet did. Right, I received an endowment, just as he has, an initiatory, just as he has, and we all, everyone is invited, all those who worthily strive to follow God and to be a disciple of Christ are invited to come into the house of the Lord, to be endowed with priesthood, power and knowledge and to be given a blessing. All of us have that same blessing extended to us. We seek to empower everybody and to lift everybody, whereas outside forces want to tear down and put people down. The Church of Jesus Christ builds individuals and it builds families, and that has been its goal and its start from the beginning, and that goes right along with God's eternal glory and plan, which is in his work, which is to bring to pass the eternal life, immortality, eternal life there we go.
Speaker 1:Immortality, eternal life of man right.
Speaker 2:It's all about building up families and individuals.
Speaker 1:So, and kind of wrapping that up like we're not here to make a case for Mormons or Mormonism, we're actually making the case for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which deconstructs cults, deconstructs idolatry in our lives. It purifies us of the effects of not following God and improves upon those defects after we've been healed from them.
Speaker 1:right Like I had an epiphany, um, so basically the scripture is like no man can serve two masters, for he'll either hate the one and love the other, or else he'll hold to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve god and mammon. What's the epiphany I had around the scripture is it's warning against cults and idolatry. Right, and saying like you can't have two masters, you can't have two priorities. But the flip side of this is, if you are, if you feel like you are off the path, you have replaced God with other behaviors and other beliefs.
Speaker 1:If you add God in, it pushes out the other master, and so I think the one thing I want all of us to take away from this is I'm going to get rid of the worldly master, the worldly cult or the idol I'm worshiping, and replace it with God, and I think we're always trying to do that. I think it'll be a lifelong journey, but slowly but surely, god will win out. He always does. We know that. So I guess, joel, I actually want to start something new this week. I didn't. I'm going to put you on the spot.
Speaker 2:So, based off of what we, talked about.
Speaker 1:what's one thing you're going to do this week to apply this to your life? You were kidding, you didn't put me on the spot One thing I am going to do this.
Speaker 2:I think I actually kind of talked to you. Yes, now that I think about it, I talked about getting off of social media on my phone and only doing it from my laptop right when we need to post to interact. So I think my goal this week is to put that aside and, instead of scrolling after work to reach out to one person in my ward that I haven't talked to in a while, that's what I'm going to do. I'm going to reach out to somebody that I haven't seen or heard from and just see how my friend is doing. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I love that.
Speaker 1:Um, one thing I I've been thinking about this a lot recently is did work, man? Work has been my master far too long. I always overwork, I'm always on the grind Like it's just been beat into me from door to door, but I I don't have to let it be that way. So that's part of it. But I think the thing I want to do before the start of every workday this week, before I started making my first call or hopping on my first demo, I want to make sure I have written in my journal and done some type of study, whether that's general conference or the scriptures, because I know I can't get rid of work, but at least I can set the precedent for what that work is meant to do. It's meant to build a life that so that I can worship my savior, jesus Christ and my heavenly father. So I want to start with the good and then the bad of cells can have its shot.
Speaker 2:You know what I? Mean so with that said little flock fear not do good.
Speaker 1:Build upon the rock and always hear him.
Speaker 2:Hey, lil Flock, if you found this episode beneficial to your testimony. Remember to leave a review, share with others and follow for more.