Hear Him Heal You
This podcast is for those who are looking to experience the Savior more in their lives because of the peace and healing that only He can offer through revelation. Come unto Christ to get out of the mental mire, find meaning in emotion, leave bad behind, and finally, be whole. This is where we hear Him to be healed.
Hear Him Heal You
Are You Competing or Connecting? Overcoming the State of Opposition
Ever wondered why pride is called the universal sin? We're diving deep into what pride really means beyond the obvious arrogance and boasting we typically associate with it. Pride, at its core, is about enmity—a state of opposition between ourselves and others, and between ourselves and God.
This episode uncovers the surprising ways pride manifests in our daily lives that we often miss. It's not just about looking down on others (the traditional "top-down" pride), but also about looking up with envy and comparison (what we call "bottom-up" pride). From fault-finding and gossiping to feeling inadequate and withholding compliments, these subtle forms of pride create barriers to genuine connection and spiritual growth.
Through the biblical story of Jonah, we explore how pride can persist even when we're doing God's work. Jonah's resentment toward the Ninevites—even after they repented—mirrors our own struggles with wanting God's mercy for ourselves but sometimes begrudging it to others. This pattern of pride appears throughout scripture, including in the parable of the prodigal son, where the older brother couldn't celebrate his sibling's return.
The antidote? Humility that creates fertile soil for God to plant seeds of faith, hope, and charity. When we experience Christ's love firsthand, we naturally want to share it with others. We offer practical questions to check your heart for pride: "How am I treating others?" and "Do I desire the same for others as I desire for myself?"
Ready to transform your relationship with God and others? Listen now to discover how yielding to the Spirit and becoming "submissive, meek, and humble" through Christ's atonement can help you overcome the universal sin and develop the pure love of Christ.
Welcome to Hear Him Heal you with Morgan and Joel. This podcast is for those that are imperfect, rough around the edges, but are still wanting to come unto Christ. Join us to get out of the mental mire, find meaning in emotion and leave bad behind. This is where we hear him to be healed. All right, we are back, joel. How's your Sunday been?
Speaker 2:Dude, it's been good. It's been really good. Kind of tired, I slept most of this Sabbath day, but you know it's been a good Father's Day.
Speaker 1:Good deal. I hope everyone who's listening wished their fathers a happy Father's Day. I called my dad. He hasn't called me back yet, so I should probably call him. After I even texted him, I was like, hey, just want to wish you a happy father's day, want to talk to you Nothing Understandable, but and my what's funny is my dad's probably going to listen to this episode, so it's going to be really funny when he hears that.
Speaker 1:Anyways, so I got a good topic for us today, joel, and it actually has to deal with pride.
Speaker 1:So one thing I've realized is I feel like we have a very simplified idea of pride most often, and because our idea is so simplified or not like really we don't understand it truly how God intends it, it's actually hard for us to avoid it, and I guess my goal of this episode is to help us expand upon the topic of pride and the actual definition God wants us to live by, so that way we can identify those times and return back to him, repent of those things, that way we can continue to I mean, live in his good graces. Right, because we do know that pride is the universal sin. It's where all other sins stem from, and I guess, the thing that hit me the most and what just reminded of me how expansive this idea of pride is, is I was actually reading in my scriptures and I came upon a few talks that talked about pride, and one thing that I really like emphasized is the idea that pride is synonymous with enmity, angel. I mean, do you know what enmity is or what the Webster's definition of enmity is?
Speaker 2:Not the Webster's. The only reason I know what enmity is is because I read the talk Beware of Pride by Ezra Tapp Benson on my mission. I don't know if I'd ever even heard that word, you know, or used that word ever if it wasn't for that talk. Right, but the way he defines enmity, is it okay if I go ahead and kind of read what he said from that talk?
Speaker 1:Yeah, go for it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I really like it because he says the central feature of pride is enmity enmity towards God and enmity towards our fellow men.
Speaker 1:Enmity means hatred, toward hostility to or a state of opposition, which is the power by which Satan wishes to reign over us. Yeah, and the part that like really stuck out to me like obviously I always think of pride as like hatred or hostility, but it was the idea of a state of opposition because I was like man, there's plenty of times where I feel like I'm up against or I am like in competition with other people, but I don't necessarily hate them or feel hostile towards them, but it is creating a barrier to connection and me actually truly like loving those people right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I definitely agree.
Speaker 2:That was what stood out to me as well because, like you said, like we're all kind of familiar with that, like that hatred, hostility, or even when I think of pride, you know, I think of like being jealous of others and stuff, but it's that state of opposition just reminds me, it's very, it calls back to me in, like second Nephi, when Lehi is talking to his sons about opposition and all things and realizing that there really is, you risk the sin of pride. In everything we do, right, almost everything we do. We risk sinning through pride, whether that's because I mean we're going to go into this more, right. But you realize so much more that pride is not just that hostility or hatred, but you realize that, hey, whenever I don't believe that I can do something and I kind of have opposition with God on that, that's pride, right. Or when I look at someone and say, wow, there's so much better than me, I'm putting opposition between me and what I can become right. And so pride isn't always that super arrogant, confident guy we put, we think about right.
Speaker 1:You know, that boastful guy walking around, it's also the guy who says I'm not good enough yeah, very true, I, and that that talk beware of pride actually really opened up my idea to really kind of put enmity in two different boxes. So we have like top pride, which I feel like is the traditional sense of pride, where we think of like the rich, the powerful, the arrogant, and they're usually people who are looking down upon others, right, and so they can be seen as egotistical or narcissistic. We might even see like them as stubborn or rude and mean, like them as stubborn or rude and mean. But then there's a whole other side that I think we forget about, which I think we find ourselves in more often than the traditional sense, which is the bottom-up pride, meaning we're looking up to others who we see as perceived as better not that they're actually better than us, and Ezra Taft Benson kind of elaborates on this. He's like there's so many ways this can like manifest. He's like it shows up in fault finding or gossiping and backbiting. He even talks about complaining too much.
Speaker 1:Or this one guy stood out to me like living beyond your means, like you see, all these people have all these nice things and you're like I got to keep up with the Joneses, right, right, and so then they kind of like. Then we kind of get into envying and coveting and and then just like some of the ones that I think sometimes we actually do recognize, like withholding gratitude or not paying a compliment that would actually lift someone else up, or being unforgiving and jealous, and those right there I feel like really cover the most common everyday forms of pride that we live in. I don't know if you agree with that, but yeah, totally.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think I've definitely struggled One that I'll give an example For me. I've struggled a lot with comparison. It's like I always want to compare myself to others and it's very cliche that you're like, oh, don't compare yourself to others, comparison is the thief of happiness, right, and as a young man you're kind of arrogant. You're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever man, I heard that a lot and so prideful. And I was prideful in the fact that I didn't even want to listen to that, but even more prideful that I didn't realize how true it was that when you compare, you are exhibiting pride, right, and you were that innate competition like I need to be better than them, right, instead of having that same kind of view towards yourself, I need to be better than what I was right. Because I think pride for one thing is mostly I'm just going to say mostly it's exhibited towards our view of others, but sometimes it's internal as well, when we say I can't be as good as I was right. But I think we can always say that we can be better than what we were.
Speaker 2:And that was kind of what really stuck out to me, kind of out of all the things you said there was really focusing on the part about that comparison, about that competition that we have internally. We're always trying to compete with others, like I feel like I'm a fairly competitive person, and I've seen that cause me to have enmity or even anger in my heart right towards others. I'm like man. Why does it feel like they just always you know everything always works out for them. It always goes so much better for them than it does for me, and it leads to bitterness and it leads to anger, it leads to separation from God, and so that's one thing that this talk opened my eyes to is like, okay, the only person you should be trying to become better than is your past self.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and sometimes it's easier to recognize when we have pride or enmity towards others, right, I think the harder one is trying to recognize when we feel that towards God.
Speaker 1:I think the harder one is trying to recognize when we feel that towards God because it's very apparent like we actually have like, because people are tangible and are constantly around us, it's easy for us to know when we're like I don't want to go talk to that person, I don't want that person in my life.
Speaker 1:But sometimes we can go weeks, months, years feeling this like opposition to God, not wanting him to be a part of our lives for one reason or another. Elder Benson kind of elaborates on this part too and he says enmity toward God takes on many labels such as rebellion, hardheartedness, stiff-neckedness, unrepentant, puffed up, easily offended and sign seekers the proud wish to agree with them up, easily offended and sign seekers the proud wish to agree with them or the proud wish God to agree with them. They aren't interested in changing their opinions to agree with God's. And I'm like, even like day in and day out, I'm like man. Sometimes I feel some of these like. Sometimes I am hard-hearted or I'm very reluctant to make certain changes in my life, right, yeah, I had a little insight, like I've had people sometimes.
Speaker 2:I mean, like, who, like what? Gives the prophet or apostle the right to tell me what I can or can't do? Like, even this is old school stuff, right. Like I remember as a kid in North Carolina hearing things like well, who's to say how many piercings I can have in my? This is old school, right. This is showing how old this is. This is more of a cultural thing, right. But like, who are they to tell me I shouldn't have tons of piercings in my ears or on my lips or whatever? I want them, right? Or who is someone to tell me I shouldn't do this or that? It was just like looking at it as, even as a kid, innately I knew that that was the wrong way to approach it and regardless if that's a doctrinal issue or not, you know that's to be discussed, right. I don't care to get into all of that if you should have multiple peers or not.
Speaker 1:Anyways. What I'm trying to get at, though, is— yeah, joel, I have way more than two.
Speaker 2:I know it's scary, no, I'm just kidding, no, but the thing is, I think the approach that we need to take when we receive counsel from church leaders and from those who have been set apart to, I mean, I think it's okay to even have some pushback and some dialogue, but take that approach instead of saying who are they and talking behind their back and holding this anger and bitterness towards them, I think it's so much. It makes the situation can be so much more productive if you simply approach that person and say I want to understand why. Yeah, you know, genuinely, come in with genuinely. What is it that causes me to be a better or worse follower of Christ by listening to this counsel, right? Or I've heard people say I think membership counsels and excommunications are stupid, which my response to them is well, you clearly never been to one, because they're not.
Speaker 2:They are the most productive thing, and I think there's I think it, I don't think it's definitely the adversary who puts these thoughts into our minds, right, he wants to cause division and the best way to do that is with pride, and so whenever you're trying to better yourself, he's going to try to tell you you don't need to listen to other people. You got that you can do your own thing right. Listen to other people, you got that you can do your own thing right. And he wants you to be, because that leads to distrust. It leads to a lack of confidence in others to help you, guide you through things.
Speaker 2:So that's why I think it's so important to be humble when we're going, especially through the repentance process, right, yeah, and listening to our church leaders and those who have priesthood keys and discussing with them. If you have a problem with something they say, talk to them. They're human beings, they can communicate. You know, like be a grown up, you know. Go face them and say, hey, I got an issue with this, and then also be prepared to listen, be prepared sometimes to sit down and shut up, you know.
Speaker 2:So, I think there's just so many facets that we could go down with in regards to pride and how it affects our spiritual and daily lives, but that was just another thought that came to me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think like one of the best like scriptural stories that I feel shows enmity towards man and enmity towards God is actually the story of Jonah. A lot of times people just think of Jonah and the well as like if you run away from God's commandments, he'll come and find you and swallow you up and spit you back out where you're supposed to be going right. But if you are to read all four chapters of Jonah and it's a quick read, so I really recommend it you can actually see there is this whole vein of thought and God trying to show us, like, what pride can actually look like in our daily lives and how it can affect us. So, like, starting at the beginning, we all know that, like Jonah was called to preach unto the Ninevites or the city of Nineveh, and what does he do? He runs away, he gets on a boat. And not only does he get on a boat, he goes down to like if you read it's like the bottom of the ship and he goes to sleep.
Speaker 1:Like. I don't know about you, but that has been me sometimes, where I'm like I'm gonna run as far away and I'm gonna try to find anything to distract me from what I'm supposed to be doing. Maybe that's a nap, maybe that's like doom scrolling, like I just want to be completely mind of what god wants me to do. And that's where, like jonah was, and like I think that's a pretty common example of pride we want to avoid whatever god tells us to do. And then, sure enough, like like jonah doesn't even choose to humble himself, god and the people he was with on the ship decided to humble him. So, first day, god sends a huge storm. All the sailors are freaking out and they're like dude, like they even asked him like why are you on the ship? Like, and he's like well, I'm a Hebrew and I fear the fear of the God of earth and the God that created land and sea. And they're like well, we're going to throw you overboard. So he gets thrown into the sea and then he gets swallowed up by a whale right.
Speaker 2:It's a big fish. We don't know if it was a whale Can't be confirmed or denied.
Speaker 1:Fair enough, big fish. So maybe it was like I don't know some tuna that swallowed him, just ginormous, I don't know, but anyways it's in this, it's when he's in this fish that he and I want I'm going to get come back to it. But he becomes temporarily humbled and a lot of people just think he, that was his like. That's when he did humble and he's like I'm going to go forward and teach these people. So he has this beautiful prayer. He asked for forgiveness and at the end of the prayer, basically the scriptures say he was vomited up on shore.
Speaker 1:And then it talks about how he then goes and preaches to the Ninevites and they repent. And then God stays his hand from destroying the city of Nineveh, because that was the prophecy that Jonah received. He's like God told Jonah to be like hey, go to Nineveh and tell them hey, you're going to be destroyed if you don't repent. Or maybe it was just to get destroyed, but anyways they do repent, they listen to Jonah. Or maybe it was just to get destroyed, but anyways they do repent, they listen to Jonah. And then the very last chapter of Jonah, he's ticked off at God. He's like why would you spare the people of Nineveh. He's like they are evil, they're Israel's enemies, like you should have killed them anyways. And then, like the rest of Jonah, chapter 4, is God like scolding anyways? And then, like the rest of jonah, chapter four, is god like scolding jonah and being like and trying to teach him like there's a lot more? Yeah, he does that with a little parable.
Speaker 2:Like so, he's under a tree. From my understanding, that's giving him shade and it dies. And he's like so, he's upset that. He's like, man, this tree is dead, you know. And then god's like, so, if you have, if you can, pity a plant dying, he's like can I not have pity on a city full of souls? Right, can I not feel sorrow for the wickedness of my children and want them to come back? And this story is so reminiscent of the prodigal son, right, and Jonah's the older brother. He goes hey, I did what you asked, god, I did what you wanted me to do. But the pride in his heart won't let him find joy in the work. It won't let him find joy in seeing people repent and choose to worship God. I think he's trying to speak to them in a way that is reminiscent of the story of Jonah. He's showing them a story they know and he's making it even more personalized. Right, he's saying this could be your own family right.
Speaker 2:He's saying a story they know and he's making it even more personalized. Right he's saying this could be your own family. Right he's saying this could be your own family. Members that you have pride and enmity towards right People. You don't even want to see your own family succeed and come back because you're so prideful.
Speaker 2:And so he takes that story of Jonah, I believe, and he takes it to a micro level. I think Jonah is a macro level story, right when it's this great big city of wicked people and they all repent, right. But he's saying, even if it's just your own brother who repents, please get rid of the enmity from your heart, be humble, have forgiveness and love towards your family.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's very common that, like, when we're prideful, we can't stand when others receive grace and success or mercy. And, kind of coming back to the story of Jonah, that like first off I tried to run away because I really didn't want to do it, and then I had to be compelled and forced back to go preach to these people and then even after the like I was six would have been successful, jonah would. I was like he's, like I was ticked off, you know. And so it really just makes me think that, like this whole story, he is continuing to experience pride and, to be honest, like I think we're all experiencing pride to one degree or another, and so it's just like even when we've done what's right, we still have to be aware of pride at every second you know it's so true.
Speaker 2:I mean, I see it constantly in my own life. Like even dude, I struggle in church all the time, listening to talks or Sunday school lessons.
Speaker 1:I'm like dude, I could do this so much.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm like, dude, I could do this so much better, right, like I could teach this topic so much better. And then I'm like, what a prideful, arrogant thing to say, you know Like who. Prideful arrogant thing to say. You know Like who am I to sit here and think that I can do everything better than anyone else and that I have better insight than the bishop did when he asked someone to give a talk, right, or to teach this lesson?
Speaker 2:I know, not everything is micromanaged and inspired to the ump degree, right, and everything that we do. But I know that the bishop has keys right To oversee the well-being of the ward and if he feels that it's going good enough for him, it should be good enough for me, right. And so I'm like, sometimes I'm like in the middle of sacrament. I have to be like you know what Joel? Like just shut up, dude, stop. Like, just listen. You know, just listen. Have a soft heart and open heart and listen to the message and listen to the testimony that is coming from someone's heart, regardless of the words they say. Try to focus on what they're trying to convey.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, a hundred percent, and it is really. It is such a natural thing to want to think those things or like to give in to pride, because, like, our brains are hard wire for comparison. It's it's how we learn, like even when we were constantly referring back to past experiences, comparing them to the current circumstances and making judgment calls and decisions. And we're also like hardwired to like be skeptical and try to protect ourselves and look out for danger, competition, it's like they're, like we are feeling threatened in, like socially or in or financially or whatever right, and so sometimes we just need to understand, like, when those thoughts come, it's not necessarily that we're being prideful, but it's a good indication for us to do a self check right, and one I, as I was reading through these talks and scriptures and stuff I did, I was like I kept asking myself what is a question I can constantly ask myself to check myself on pride?
Speaker 1:And there's two questions that I came up with because I think they're easy to answer and what. The first one is how am I treating others? And then, do I desire the same for others? And because the reason I think those two questions answer it the most is it's easy to know how I've treated others that week or that day. I can look back and be like yeah, that like when I was talking to someone I didn't really want to talk to, I was just looking for a way out of that conversation. I could have been more kind. Or like when someone like I work in sales, right. Like when someone makes a sale or hits their quota and I'm like dude, frick that guy, like why can't I have that? Like, how often have I done? Or like, or when I'm successful, I'm like cool, did I want to try to help others have the same success? Or did I try to like keep some of these sales tips and tricks to myself so I could always be the ones being successful?
Speaker 2:right, yeah, I think withholding your gifts and your talents right is a very key aspect of pride and it just goes back to what Christ taught us right about letting our light shine, letting ourselves be a beacon, using our gifts to grow our gifts right. And I think that's such a day-to-day thing that I experienced where I'm like, oh man, I could help someone out with this. But I'm just like there's two different sides of this pride. One is like I don't care if they do well or not right, it doesn't affect me, right. And then the other side is why would they listen to me, right? Why would they care what I have to say?
Speaker 2:So those are two different aspects of pride. One is believing you're not good enough to share something that could help someone, and the other is believing they're not good enough to receive your helper. And anyways, the way I've kind of looked at it is, I kind of say to myself like, is this what charity looks like? You know, what does charity look like? I think typically we think of humility as the antithesis to pride, which it is. But I think charity is the fruit of humility, right, when we're humble, we are able to have charity towards all of our brothers and sisters right, and I think if we are striving to obtain charity rather than avoiding pride, we're going to have so much more success in doing both if we seek first to have charity and humility.
Speaker 1:I really like your comment on the humility piece because, first things is, I think the quality of humility or meekness is like where God can finally work with us right, where he can start to plant seeds in our spiritual soil. That seed could be a seed of faith, where we're just barely beginning to grasp the concept that God is real and that we believe in him. Then that can give way to hope, where we hope that the things that Christ promises us are real and as we continue to work in faith and hope, we start to experience this love of God. And there's a very and I've experienced this myself whenever I've received mercy, grace, forgiveness, because of the faith and hope I've exercised there's a natural occurrence for all of us where we want to turn to others and that's where charity comes in. We want to love others like Christ has loved us.
Speaker 1:I think that's like the common progression from humility all the way to charity. And so if you are having a hard time, I feel like, with finding humility or whatever I feel like with finding humility or whatever I think, then the first thing we need to do is find our way back to Christ. How can I connect with Christ? First, receive the love and care and attention I need, first from God, because once I get that, I'm going to naturally want to give that to others, and so I think that is one step in resolving pride in our lives is a return to Christ, and we saw that with the prodigal son, where he returned back to his father. I wish there was like a sequel to the prodigal son, you know, where we get, to see how he then changed, going forward to help others.
Speaker 2:I think this isn't a sequel, but this is kind of the other side of it, once we've been humbled and we've come to the presence of God and we've received the blessings of the Savior's love, right, and for me personally, I think ever since I've gone through the temple and received the endowment of power in our lives, right.
Speaker 2:And ever since I've been able to go there and go through that ascension ceremony into the presence of God, feel that love and charity. Right, I've wanted my friends and other people I know to go to the temple, right. And so I think about the story of Lehi right Once he was underneath the tree he was partaking of the fruit, he was in the holy of holies, so to speak. Right, he had made it to the end goal Immediately he turned around. He's calling his family, he's calling others, right, he wants them to have this joy too. There's plenty of fruit to go around.
Speaker 2:And so I think, as we take that view of wanting to share the fruit and realizing there's plenty to go around in this world, selfishness creates this scarcity mindset that you know there's not enough to share with everyone. There's plenty. There is plenty for everyone to have to partake and to not take away from what you have. And that's the best part about the gospel right Is that it is an eternal thing that there is infinite amount of grace and love and charity from our Father in heaven and our Savior Jesus Christ. So we need to let that work in us, to reach out to others, to invite them to partake of it, and if we have a desire to serve God and to serve his children, we can overcome pride, we can overcome enmity and we can replace that with humility and charity and with hope and faith and all these things that help us grow as children of God and help us to become like our Father in heaven 100%.
Speaker 1:So I think we'll leave it there and I just want to kind of end with Elder Benson's last words from his talk Beware of Pride. Because to be honest we could say he's the pioneer for bringing all these things to light, right, and really expanding the idea of pride. And he says at the very end of his talk and he says we must yield to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, put off the prideful natural man, become a saint through the atonement of Jesus Christ and become a child, submissive, meek and humble. That right, there is the formula for how to resolve it. I think there's a lot of nuances and stuff along the way, but at the end of the day, listen to the Spirit, return to Christ and choose to be humble and we'll find our way back to charity and leaving pride behind. And so, with that said, remember Little Flock, despair not build upon the rock, do good and always hear him. Hey, little flock.
Speaker 2:If you found this episode beneficial to your testimony, remember to leave a review, share with others and follow for more.