Hear Him Heal You
This podcast is for those who are looking to experience the Savior more in their lives because of the peace and healing that only He can offer through revelation. Come unto Christ to get out of the mental mire, find meaning in emotion, leave bad behind, and finally, be whole. This is where we hear Him to be healed.
Hear Him Heal You
The Priesthood Isn't About Equality, It's About Divine Roles
What happens when we focus on what divides us rather than what unites us? Morgan and Joel dive deep into one of today's most misunderstood religious topics: the priesthood and the divine roles of men and women in God's plan.
Starting with a chance question from a missionary convert's friend, they explore how our cultural backgrounds and misunderstandings about terminology create unnecessary confusion about priesthood roles. The conversation reveals how Satan attacks both men's and women's divine responsibilities—convincing women they don't need to be mothers while telling men they don't need to be providers or priesthood holders.
The hosts share powerful personal examples of how their parents fulfilled complementary but equally vital roles in their spiritual development. Their mothers established rigorous scripture study routines and constant gospel teaching in the home, while their fathers provided guidance, correction, and examples of priesthood service. These combined influences created firm spiritual foundations that continue to shape them today.
Morgan and Joel challenge the growing individualism in our society that tells us we don't need each other. They testify that God's plan requires the interdependence of men and women—we simply cannot reach our divine potential alone. Rather than questioning God's design, they invite listeners to seek understanding of their divine responsibilities and find healing through embracing their eternal identities.
Whether you've had questions about priesthood authority yourself or simply want to better understand God's divine pattern for men and women, this episode offers clarity, hope, and a path forward. Listen now and discover how understanding your divine responsibilities can bring greater purpose and joy to your life.
Welcome to Hear Him Heal you with Morgan and Joel. This podcast is for those that are imperfect, rough around the edges, but are still wanting to come unto Christ. Join us to get out of the mental mire, find meaning in emotion and leave bad behind. This is where we hear Him to be healed. All right, we are back. I am happy to be here Finally got Wi-Fi set up in my place. We've been living in the Stone Age the last couple weeks. You never know how much you rely on Wi-Fi until you don't have it. You know. Oh, yeah, definitely. How's your week been, joel?
Speaker 2:My week's been really good. Just work. We went to a rodeo last night. That was fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I will say there's nothing more American than going to a rodeo. I've realized Nothing. Nothing You'd be hard pressed to find something more patriotic and more like just freaking down to earth.
Speaker 2:Seriously. So I mean outside of of that. Let's see, went to church on sunday, hung out with my family a little bit, hung out with you a little bit, yeah anyways I've seen. I've seen you both every day this week yeah, you have.
Speaker 1:It's only two days in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know why you're asking me about it yeah, as I say, I don't know why you're asking me about my week. You've been there every day, I feel like everyone wants.
Speaker 1:I feel like people want to hear. Maybe they want, they want to glimpse into our lives. Joel, we're not just uh, we just. We're not just podcast, we don't, we don't just live in the podcast, you know yeah that's true.
Speaker 2:We want people to know we're good american patriots who go to rodeos and cheers for the flag very true anyway.
Speaker 1:So you were telling me about this. One of your converts from your mission reached out to you.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, one of my friends, jason, reached out to me semi-recently and so I met Jason when I was serving on Ohio State Really cool guy and we became. I feel like we connected really fast. We just became really good friends and he ended up joining the church and we've stayed in contact, not like consistent, but, like you know, every few months I feel like me and him reconnect over something. And he recently reached out to me about the podcast. And then he also reached out to me about one of his friends who had a question about the priesthood and about, you know, like why don't women hold the priesthood or why don't you know they, you know, work in the same offices that the men do? And this is something that's been pretty prevalent recently and I've seen a lot on social media and there's been this big push to try to make the priesthood more centralized and everyone should hold it and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:But I realized. Are you saying among members or just in like in a general sense, because obviously there's priests in like certain offices in other churches, that like a?
Speaker 2:lot of people.
Speaker 1:A lot of women are also like. We should be able to serve in the church like that.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I'm talking about both, I guess. So you see a lot in Protestant denominations where they are now having women priests and priestesses, I guess, and worship leaders, and then you know, then you have the Catholics who are like, no, we're not doing that. And then you have Latter-day Saints, who have always had women involved in priesthood offices and auxiliaries or not offices but in auxiliaries and callings.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like we've been way more progressive than any other church, Like we've had women speaking in church since, like what, the beginning. So you know if you're looking for.
Speaker 1:Like the whole reason we have the word of wisdom is because of Emma Smith.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, it's like. And who wrote our hymns, you know, or organized our hymn books? Right, emma Smith.
Speaker 1:So it's like dude we were way ahead of people, like women were allowed to vote in the state of Utah, like way before anyone else was. So eat that, and I did. I will say too, like, just even like, when you think about the ceiling and receiving exaltation. Men can't do it alone, neither can women, and so I love that there's always this sense of codependency between men and women within the church. In order to exalt one another, we need one another to essentially, like, become who we need to be, and we can't do that alone. And I think, like there's this, such an individual, like individualism, is being pushed very hard oh yeah, in America. Individualism is being pushed very hard oh yeah, in america. And it is like creating this idea that, like I don't need women, or women say I don't need men, and it's like really like taking away such a great power and support system in our lives.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I feel like it's gone, that's besides the point, but I just wanted to throw that out there yeah, anyways, it's like there's, so there's become this I mean, this has been going on in our culture for a long while where it's this whole narrative of man versus woman, right, or men versus women, instead of men and women working together in unison, in harmony, as the Lord intended. And so I wanted to really attack this problem. I think the real issue is not the priesthood itself, it's our understanding of it. And just like I was kind of getting into and you kind of called me out, you were like hey, are you talking about our church or other churches? Well, that's the real issue Our church, because it was founded in America through converts, right, there's a lot of people of our church since the very early days who came from other denominations, right, so they have other words and jargon and they have other beliefs about how a church is supposed to look and work.
Speaker 2:And so when they think priesthood from a Catholic perspective, like oh, yeah, it's those old men in the clergy who work in all the sacraments, right, that's what they call their ordinances, they call them sacraments, anyways. So then you look at our church and we still use that word priesthood, but we mean something completely different than that. And we still use that word, priesthood, but we mean something completely different than that, right, we don't just mean a group of priests. So I want to give a quick definition to help clear some things up, and I really want to say thank you to Sister Horgesheimer. That was one of my mission leaders there in the Ohio Columbus Mission and she gave a wonderful presentation at a zone conference on the priesthood and I love this definition, and this one actually just comes from Preach my Gospel and it says and men receive the ordinances of salvation as well as the blessings of healing, comfort and counsel, and so it really opened my eyes Like priesthood to us is the power of God, right, it's the power of God that we can use to act on earth for the blessing of His children.
Speaker 2:And the way she kind of described it. Here's a little picture she painted. She said so you have the entire earth, right, you have the globe, that's called earth. But then you pick up the dirt that you're standing on and that's also called earth, right, so there's this big picture earth, and then there's the individualized earth, and so I think, if people just understood that we're using one word to describe different things, right, and we just need to use a little nuance, a little bit of a you know oh, what's the word I'm looking for now?
Speaker 2:Anyways, you got to be able to use the context of which it's being spoken of, right? So let's say this For example, if I say that someone who enters into the temple is endowed with the priesthood power of God, I mean you're not thinking like they got someone conferred the priesthood or a priesthood power of God. I mean you're not thinking like they got someone conferred the priesthood or a priesthood office on them, right, you would know I'm talking about the general power of God to bless the lives of His children, and so if we just use a little bit of context in what people are saying, I think that'll clear up a lot of the misconceptions about the priesthood, what it is and how it's supposed to look.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think, kind of like you said, I did an episode not too long ago about how sometimes we confuse worthiness and our worth and think they're the same thing, right, and I think this is the importance and the power of words and our need to do a better job of really digging into concepts within the church and really creating clarity around them. And I think President Nielsen is really trying to do this because you can see, over his presidency, he has talked about how, like no, we are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, we're not Mormons. We are followers of Christ, we're not followers of Mormon. And then just also like he's also pointed out that like the priesthood should also be, instead of referring to men as the priesthood, they should be referred to as the brethren of the priesthood right or the holders of the priesthood, and they'll say the specific, whether that's the order of Aaron or of Melchizedek, and I love that you brought that up because I wanted to actually go into that.
Speaker 2:So, understanding, like priesthood offices, those are for specific. The reason we have priesthood offices is to have people who basically can officiate and exercise the authority of God for specific ordinances, right. So with the Aaronic Priesthood, a young man who works under the Aaronic Priesthood can perform baptisms right, they can administer the emblems of the Savior during the sacrament right, but they have other responsibilities, such as to visit members of the Savior during the sacrament right. But they have other responsibilities, such as to visit members of the church to exhort them to pray, to make sure that the doctrine's being taught soundly, and those are certain responsibilities that they have. So these aren't like gifts, like hey, you get to do this, that women don't get to. No, these are responsibilities that you're given or delegated, that God has decided. I'm going to delegate this to you. I'm not going to personally come down and baptize everybody, right? So I'm going to give you my authority to baptize in my name.
Speaker 1:There is something I do want to like talk about when it comes to responsibilities. Like, growing up, I felt like there was a very I felt like people tried to give us a good answer for why men held the priesthood and women didn't. But I just didn't think it really hit the mark. And one of those being was saying like hey, the reason why women don't hold the priesthood is because they're more righteous than men and men need the priesthood to get on women's level. And I just didn't like that because it was a very subtle way to put men down, as if we were the mess ups. And I do want to say this like and it's really unfortunate that I do feel like in the church men do still get a bad rap for not being worthy enough, not being and like I'm not saying like, like men have their issues, we do, but I feel like women do too. And priesthood is not to level any field, it's not to exalt anyone and make them better or to exercise unrighteous dominion.
Speaker 2:That's not what it's about.
Speaker 1:It's not about that. It's literally because we have a spiritual identity as a man. Part of that is being we are meant to be holders of the priesthood and we're meant to prepare ourselves Like all men are supposed to hold a priesthood. That's God's plan for them, whether they're a member of the church or not. Eventually God wants them to get there right. And I feel like the same thing. Or there's things specific to women, like, yeah, maybe they don't get bestowed with creation power. They're born with the ability to produce life, but that is a responsibility that women have too. And I just think like and we can, and I think we'll take this even a step further I feel like the world is trying to tear down the responsibilities of men and women, like the world is telling women they don't need to be mothers and raise children.
Speaker 2:And telling men they don't need to be fathers, they don't need to be providers.
Speaker 1:Exactly, and so I wouldn't say like this is like just an attack on the priesthood. I think it's. This is a more general sense of an attack on the divine responsibilities of men and women for what God intended them to do, and so that's just something that's been really important to me is like, yeah, one day I want to live up to my responsibilities, and like, yeah, I make mistakes, but part of me being a priesthood holder is I have to repent, I have to improve daily, to continue to be better, to be able to be more worthy of the calling God has given me right, exactly, and so I love how you said it.
Speaker 2:It's like Satan is trying to attack our divine purposes. Right, what we are destined to do and to become and it goes back to the family proclamation, right In general, of man is to be a father, to be a provider, to be a protector. A woman is to be a mother, to be a nurturer, a caregiver, a teacher. And you know, the world seeks to distort that, it seeks to tear that apart and flip those right and say that, no, there is no real such thing as men and women's roles. Right, everyone can do anything that the other can do, which is not true Biologically. That's not true. Biologically, men have more testosterone, so they are stronger and more aggressive to protect and to have more energy to provide. Right, women are created also to nurture. Literally, their body nurtures a child inside of their womb for nine months and then births that child and has the ability to feed it. So, biologically, they have different roles that the other cannot do.
Speaker 2:Okay, and so suddenly we get into the theology side of this. I'm like well, actually, maybe they can flip-flop. No, that's not how that works, like dude, like it's so simple. And so, just as a man is called to preside righteously over his family and to lead them, you know, and to lead them unto good things, right towards the Savior, as long as they're submitting to Jesus Christ, then that is what he is called to do, just as in the church.
Speaker 2:If we leave from the family unit now we have to go to this hierarchical or ecclesiastical framework of the priesthood. Within a home, a mother and father operate in unity in the patriarchal priesthood which is bestowed upon them in the temple during the endowment and their sealing. Now you get outside of that family unit and you have all these families, you have all these groups. The Lord, he has a house of order outside of that family unit and you have all these families, you have all these groups. Right, the Lord, he has a house of order, right, and so he has set it up very similarly to the family, where the men are called to be leaders, protectors, providers, right, women are to nurture, to teach and to instruct, and so, if you really look at it, it really is like taking the family and just like boom, expanding it into a more generalized sense. Does that make sense? Am I making sense or am I totally?
Speaker 1:off my rocker. I think, like if you were to take men and look at men as a whole in the church, I think that makes sense, like men will always be called to be presiders over the family of God, whether that's at award level, stake level and even more general levels, right. And so I think it's important that we understand that, like we don't just hold those responsibilities just at a family level. We need to apply them to a more general sense. And one thing I do want to say on that matter is I think, like we also need to understand the roles that we play in women's lives and women play in our lives, and I really do love the sense that we're constantly taught this idea of codependency on one another.
Speaker 1:Like I can't really use the priesthood to bless my own life, like I can't give myself a blessing, I can't provide ordinance for myself. They're really meant to be provided for others. And so one day, when I have a family and kids, then I will actually be growing into more of my responsibilities as a man, right, and as a priesthood holder, and so like and I never and I would even say like most men don't like take the priesthood upon themselves to glorify themselves and I think that is like the like, one of Satan's like tactics, with this whole idea that women should be, should have the priesthood is like no, you need the priesthood to be glorified, to be a somebody, and it's just like playing on their egos. And I will say this like I feel like sometimes, like if you were to ask most men, they wouldn't feel like it makes them better or glorifying, like a lot of times I feel like men feel like they are not there yet.
Speaker 1:They're living an inferior life to the calling God has given them and they're still trying to repent and become better so that they can actually step into that space that God has intended them to fill right. And so I just want to say, like it is a responsibility, men sacrifice to hold the priesthood. Men sacrifice so much time to serve in callings, like I see this with every bishop, every stake president, and we forget that. We forget that, like, holding the priesthood is a sacrifice. It requires a lot of us and I wouldn't want to push that off to the women. I want them to have time to go do what they need to do and let men go out and sacrifice in that way.
Speaker 2:Exactly Like they have their own things to do, right? It's not like they have nothing, they're just sitting around twiddling their thumbs. We have the Relief Society. We have other callings and auxiliaries that women do perform. Well. Here's what I want to say. There's a great quote that is from, I believe, elder Oaks right? He says we are not accustomed to speaking of women. The same access to priesthood power right, and they still work under that authority regardless, right? So there's those offices that are specific to ordinances right, and are directly tied to ordinances and to specific roles within the church. There is still that general priesthood authority and power that is still given to a woman in her calling. She can still have keys to exercise and to receive revelation within a calling, right. And so I think just because we don't understand the priesthood doesn't mean that it's a controversial subject or that it needs to be reformed. No, what needs to be reformed is your mind. You need to change how you approach things, stop questioning things and start coming with a sense to understand things.
Speaker 1:Questions should be used to lead to greater knowledge.
Speaker 2:Exactly Like if a question does not seek to build your knowledge and it seeks to tear something down, right, you're in the wrong place, man, you know you're just not in the right place.
Speaker 1:Yes, it's not, it's my god who's acting upon you or prompting you. It's exactly right because, like I would say, if you, if specifically women, I guess you could say if women were to look at, take a deeper look into the priesthood, and they were to understand their role as a woman and men's role, it'd actually be uplifting and edifying, right, and I think, like every time I've done a deeper dive into what the priesthood means in my life, then, yeah, I would really, I've always been uplifted and edified or I felt a renewed hope to better myself, to live up to that responsibility, right, yeah.
Speaker 2:I want to give just a personal example of how I believe that priesthood, power and authority was exercised in my home, and not just through my father, but specifically through my mother. I was actually talking to my brother today and we were talking about how we came to have understandings of the gospel, like the way that we do right, and why teaching or sharing the gospel has always been rather easy for us. We've always felt like, oh, I feel like it's pretty easy to understand and answer people's questions about the gospel. We were talking, I said honestly, dude, I think it was because mom took a, she made it a priority that on Sundays that we spent that day dedicated to the Lord. We didn't watch movies that weren't church produced or weren't, like you know, either living scriptures or conference talks pretty much right, and I'm so grateful for that. Because of her exercising her role as a mother to nurture and to teach us right. The Spirit was always in our home. Growing up right. The Spirit was always teaching us new things, was always in our home. Growing up right. The Spirit was always teaching us new things. And because she always made sure to give us a structure to study the scriptures, to pray often right and to do these things. And she exercised the authority which she held in the patriarchal priesthood of her own home and her household and to manage that right.
Speaker 2:Her kids, me, my brother, my sister I think we all have a relatively good understanding of the doctrine of that right. Her kids, me, my brother, my sister I think we all have a relatively good understanding of the doctrine of Christ. Right, and we're all active in church. Right, we're all you know, we're all how do I even put this? We're all doing mostly what we're supposed to be doing. Right, and it's because of her, it's because of that she fulfilled her calling and role as a mother. Right Now, that's not to diminish anything that my dad did.
Speaker 2:My dad instructed me as well, mostly reprimanding me, telling me I need to be better and be. You know, I need to make sure I'm always a worthy priesthood holder so that God can use me to bless others' lives. Right? I mean I remember him pulling me aside one day and saying, joel, there will come a day where the Lord will need worthy and righteous priesthood holders to serve and to exercise his will. Are you going to be one of them? And I mean that hit me, he's like are you going to be prepared for that? And so that was his role. His role was to sit here and kind of be that reality check, that slap to the face like wake up, dude, don't sleep on your responsibilities, don't sleep on your covenants. He does it constantly. I mean, I'm 23 years old, I haven't lived with my parents for over two years and he still corrects me as if I'm, you know, a little child. He has no hesitancy, and I'm so grateful that my parents have both fulfilled their roles and their callings in the patriarchal priesthood of the family.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I will say, like my mom was amazing growing up too. Like she was always the one to be like okay, time to have scripture study every night. Dude, we hardly ever miss family scripture study, even with like sick kids who complained the whole time. Like we like no, we don't want to do it. Like no, this is I'm tired. I have school work. Like no, this is I'm tired, I have schoolwork. Like no every time. And my mom was like cracking the whip to get us to family scripture study and I'm very grateful for that Because, like, I really felt like that was a very formative time for me.
Speaker 1:All growing up was being instructed and the knowledge I gained at home was phenomenal. Like I remember going to church and I usually be the one answering questions because my mom taught me so dang well and like, obviously, my dad was there too and my dad did a great job. But like my mom like really pushed that and like, obviously, like I think like mothers don't understand the like the impact they have in the home and like maybe I didn't realize until now, but we even see that with the stripling warriors, it was like their mothers were the instructors.
Speaker 2:I was just about to bring that up.
Speaker 1:And I will say fathers hold a different type of instruction in the home. I think we all saw how our fathers served in callings, like my dad was always serving in some type of leadership calling growing up and it made me realize that that is who I needed to be. Like my dad instilled the need for me to go serve a mission. My mom couldn't taught me that. Like I remember, like there'd always be times where I'd be like Dad, tell us a story from your mission. Like there were so many times we asked that. And he always had great ones from his mission and I loved it. And I think, like men are lead by example when teaching their kids, but women are more in like the trenches with their kids when it comes to edifying and uplifting them, and I don't think it's meant to be any other way, right.
Speaker 2:Exactly, I think so. Now, to just kind of answer my buddy, jason's friend right, you know it's okay if you don't understand everything, right, and you have questions, but just know that, like God has, he has set this up for a reason, right, and that if we focus more on trying to fulfill our roles as men and women, as God has ordained, then we're not going to worry about these problems. Everyone gets the same salvation, right. A woman doesn't get any less exaltation than a man does in the next life. Right, like you said earlier, we have to be sealed to each other to reach exaltation, to be sealed to each other to reach exaltation, and so we equally receive the same blessings. No one is being left out here. God has accounted for all of His children, right. He has made it possible for all of us to return, to be with Him, to be like Him, to participate in His glory and His work.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and sometimes I don't take this because our whole podcast is about hear him heal you and I think the more we listen to God on what our divine responsibilities are, we'll find a lot of healing, in the sense we finally know what we're supposed to be doing, we know what direction our lives need to go, we know what corrections we need to make to be a better priesthood holder or to be a better future father, brother, son, whatever.
Speaker 1:And same thing for women, like I feel like the more they understand their role and like the divine gifts God has given them, they will step into being a better mother, future mother. They'll know how to better serve in their callings. Because I think, like women can only do specific things in the church. When it comes to really like healing the hearts of a congregation or a ward or certain people within the ward, like men can't do all of the work God has called them to do, and I think I just want to really echo that and, like I hope we, I hope that people that listen to it like understand that we need to combat this, the noise of we're individual, like no, we do need each other and we can't allow the world to try to rob us of our divine responsibilities, our divine gifts and really lean more into those things, because that's what God intended With that. Said remember little flock despair. Said remember Little Flock despair, not build upon the rock, do good and always hear Him.