Hear Him Heal You
This podcast is for those who are looking to experience the Savior more in their lives because of the peace and healing that only He can offer through revelation. Come unto Christ to get out of the mental mire, find meaning in emotion, leave bad behind, and finally, be whole. This is where we hear Him to be healed.
Hear Him Heal You
"Are you listening? Will you love me back?"
When faith starts to feel like a chore chart, something vital has gone missing—and it’s not your work ethic. We open up about seasons where prayer is mechanical, church feels obligatory, and spiritual habits lose their spark, then offer a framing that revives desire: treat commandments and covenants as God’s bids for emotional intimacy. Instead of chasing outcomes or checking boxes, we ask how to respond to a Person who is actively inviting us to deeper connection.
We unpack the difference between a transactional religion and a transforming relationship, and we get honest about the goals we secretly pursue—status, comfort, admiration—that don’t line up with the life of Jesus. Drawing from relationship science, we explore how clear bids—“Here’s how I feel loved”—apply to discipleship. The Sabbath becomes a chosen signal of presence, not a burden. Repentance shifts from shame to repair. Obedience becomes affectionate: not perfect, but sincere, warm, and steady. Along the way, we revisit Peter’s seaside moment—“Lovest thou me?”—and trace how love for Christ turns into care for people, time for service, and attention to what actually lasts.
If you’ve felt yourself drifting into routine, this conversation offers simple ways to re-align: pray and listen, honor one clear bid from God this week, serve someone who can’t repay you, and let repentance rebuild trust quickly. The result isn’t instant prosperity; it’s something richer—a living bond with God that reshapes your priorities and restores joy to worship. Listen now, share it with a friend who needs a lift, and if it resonates, subscribe and leave a review so others can find the show. What bid from God are you choosing to answer today?
Welcome to Hear Him Kill You with Morgan and Joel. This podcast is for those who are imperfect and rough around the edges, but are still wanting to come under Christ. Essentially, it's for everyone. So join us to get yourself out of the mental mire, find meaning and emotion, and leave that behind. This is where we hear him to be healed. All right. Welcome back to a new episode with Morgan and Joel here at Hear Him, Heal You. And um Dude, like I like one thing I want to talk about. Like, I feel like I've been running into this thing quite a bit lately. Where and you probably have experienced this too. I think everyone does. Where like sometimes it feels like living the gospel becomes more like rote and routine, or like even more like you feel like you have to do it, or it's an obligation. Like obligatory. Yeah. Yeah. Like, yeah. Or it's like a duty. And like low-key, dude, sometimes I like I'm like, I'm so done with having a calling. I am so done with like going to two hours of church, even though we used to go to three.
SPEAKER_00:Sometimes I'm like, I think of that as like a distant, like, you know, what's it called? Like a Mandela effect, right? Where you're like, is that real? That really happened, you know? It's like I remember we used to do it. It's like, I don't think we ever did. I can't remember what it was like. So it's kind of funny.
SPEAKER_01:I don't know how we did do it. Three hours. Jeez. Um, but another part too is like, or even just like, I'm like, dude, I don't really want to go to the temple, or I don't really want to read my scriptures or pray. And I feel like it's always coming back to this idea that it's just like I don't really feel like I am connected to God while doing these things. You know? And I what do you find? I guess I'm just curious to hear what you say, but um what do you think leads to that? Like, why why do we eventually get at points in our gospel worship or our in our life we disconnect God from the equation of doing all these things?
SPEAKER_00:Well, I think sometimes it's a sign that we're just kind of disconnected from God in general. So like I'll notice sometimes when I start to feel that way, I realize it's because I'm not I'm not actually talking to God very much, and I'm not like actually communicating or like having a com personal communion with my father. And I'm just kind of going through the motions of my prayers. I'm saying my prayers, but I don't intend to receive an answer, right? Like I'm praying, but I'm not listening for a voice in return, right? I'm just kind of going through the motions. Yeah. And so I'm like pretty much acting as if there's a God, but not actually seeking a relationship, right? Yeah. Like, you know, I like to like go through the motions. So sometimes it's not that I don't know, like God's out of the equation. It's just I'm not listening in return, and I'm not open to sometimes. And it's moments like that where I gotta humble myself, one, repent and apologize and plead for forgiveness for ignoring him, right? While while like while going through the motions of going to church, taking the sacrament, doing all these other things. Yeah, sometimes I'm like, Heavenly Father, it's really hard to do everything you ask. And I know if I listen, then you're gonna ask more, and then I have to do more. And so it's like almost like I'm scared of like more responsibility. So I slowly start saying, like, okay, I'll do my part, but I'm just not gonna listen in return. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Dude, I also I think there's another part to it too, where like we sometimes think our relationship with God is transactional. Where it's like, if I do all these things for you, God, you're supposed to give me all these things. And I think sometimes I get frustrated where I'm like, dude, for nearly 30 years now, I've been doing everything I'm supposed to, but like I still feel like I'm a ways off from where I want to be in a spiritual sense, or even socially, or even like career-wise, or all these things. And sometimes I'm like, what's the point of doing all these things? It's not, I don't feel like it's bettering my situation. And I think that's a part of the key too, is I take all these gospel things and make them self-centered, you know. I don't know if you've ever thought like done that.
SPEAKER_00:And you take a very selfish approach to the gospel, which is kind of very very counterintuitive. Yeah. I I remember having a conversation that just reminds me of a conversation I had um back in Ohio when I was at Ohio State Um as a missionary. I did not go to Ohio State, I wish, but uh we were we were teaching this guy who was um a medical student, brilliant guy, really smart guy, and he came from a Buddhist background, and I try to remember how he ended up becoming a Buddhist because he's a white guy from like Pennsylvania or something like that. And uh so you know it was interesting. I think he was in the military and stationed somewhere overseas, and then he ended up spending some time. Long story short, he had lived in a in a Buddhist temple at one point with the monks for like seven years or something like that, something crazy like that. And then decided the best way he could help the world was to leave, you know, this temple or monastery, right? And then, you know, become a doctor so he could help others. And anyways, one time he asked me, because a lot of his questions were like basically like, why do you need Jesus Christ? Right? Like he goes, the Buddhist people are very kind, very peaceful, and very loving, and all these things. And basically, one time he asked me, What is what is it to be good? What is good? Yeah, how do you know what's good and what's what's what's wrong? And I I the best answer I could come up and give him, I said, Well, I think back to the example of the Savior, Jesus Christ. And ultimately, he was just selfless. Everything he did was to help others. His whole mission was to give himself up for our sins, right? His whole purpose was to be selfless. So I said, anything that is selfless and puts others in others outwardly, I guess, to put other things beside yourself at greater importance, taking care. It's like, why do I even care to better myself? Well, ultimately it's to help others, right? My future family, my spouse, you know, and my friends, right? That's like why we want to be better and to become better ourselves. And so I think that's what's so interesting about this, is sometimes, like you said, we do get selfish in our gospel practices. We want it to be all about us, but even for the person who it's all about, it wasn't all about him.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. That's super true. Like, I think like sometimes like we forget that the gospel is to make us like Christ and not make us and not to make us like who we want to be, because sometimes the peer like the person I want to be isn't like Christ, right? No, that's a really good point. Like, sometimes I want to be like like the most wealthy, and like Christ isn't known for his wealth, right? Or quite the opposite. Or like I want to be like the funniest or most care charismatic or just the most well liked. Well, guess what? Christ wasn't well liked. You know, like and so sometimes I'm like, okay, like, is the person who I want to be actually lining up with who Christ is trying to make me, which is in his image? And maybe that is also where things get crossed and where like gospel living becomes like hard, is because we're trying to use all these tools that Christ is giving us to forge this path to what we want when those tools he's given us weren't meant to be used for a path we were trying to dig. They're meant to help us down the path that he walked, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it kind of reminds me of a conversation I think me and you had, and I had it with Cedric as well. And we kind of talked about, you know, when Christ is teaching the Sermon on the Mountain, he talks about, you know, how an earthly father knows how to give a good gift, right? You know, what son asks for his father a fish and gives him a serpent, right? You know, he's like, if he being your earthly father pretty much knows how to give a good gift, or you as fall, what do he say exactly? Basically, in essence, says you as fallen people know how to give good gifts. How much better does your father know how to give, right? Yeah. And I think sometimes we I talked about with you and with Cedric about like, you know, we think we know what we want, what we need, right? And we ask God for what we think we need rather than asking God what he needs us to do and what he needs us to become. And so I really like that kind of perspective change that you brought in about like, okay, is the person I want to be who the Savior wants me to be. And is that ultimately leading me to be more like him? So I think that's really uh profound.
SPEAKER_01:And even kind of going off of what you're just saying, like, yeah, we know how to go get give good gifts, but God knows how to give great gifts. So maybe that sometimes the gift that we're seeking is only because we only understand what we would want to give ourselves. But God has this whole extra layer to what he knows what we need, and he's gonna give something that's maybe even outside what we thought we needed, right? So that's another another big part. And I do want to make this shift because this is something that has really impacted how well I I guess what I'm saying is I've also been like thinking about this stuff. Um there's this idea, it's called bids for emotional intimacy. And essentially what a bid for emotional intimacy is, it's kind of like a relationship um what a like principle, basically. It's like a lot of times we walk around assuming that people know how to love us, right? And because we're just always going around assuming like, oh, they should just know that I like that thing, or that makes me feel loved. That we're we're gonna get those things. But then those people don't end up loving us the way we need. And so essentially what happens is we get frustrated with that person, or they get frustrated with us because over here, this whole time, they're assuming we already knew and when they never made it clear. And so, what this idea of bids for emotional intimacy means is like the greatest form of love that we can participate in is making known to the person, so communicating the things that make us feel loved. And then waiting for them to respond to that. If they respond and actually hear us, understand us, and give us that thing, then we should that is like one of the most ultimate gestures of love that can be given us, or we can we can give someone else. But the opposite is also true. If they ignore that, they refuse to listen, and they're not willing to love us, and they don't give that, even though we were direct and like had good intentions in asking for that thing, that is kind of like the ultimate slap in the face, too, because they willingly ignored what we asked for, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Morgan, could you do our listeners a favor and give them like just a quick example of what a bid for emotional intimacy may look like. Yes.
SPEAKER_01:Um so one thing I'll I'll use my own example. Um so one thing that's always important to me when I'm in a relationship, um, like a romantic relationship, for example, is I love it when the person I'm dating goes with me to social events. Like if I'm gonna go hang out with my friends, I love having the person who I'm with be there with me and engage in that setting with me. And there's been instances throughout my dating life where one, I've assumed that they know that, and I'm just like, why aren't you coming with me? Like, and I get frustrated. But then there's also been times where I'm told where I've told them, like, hey, this is a super important event, or this is something I really would want you to come with. And they flat out are like, no, I don't want to come. And that really hurt. Like, I I think back on like some of the most hurtful moments in my dating life. It has been those moments where I was like really clear and like really put like my emotions being like, this is like a big thing for me to invite you to. And like you didn't, you don't want to come, even though like it's maybe an hour or two out of your out of your day. And so, but then there's also been people who have responded to that, like not saying like everybody I've dated has done that. Um and those are the some of my most favorite, most memorable moments in dating is having that person I was in love with at the time there with me. So that's one example.
SPEAKER_00:No, I love that because that that kind of I think that's gonna help paint a picture for our listeners as we kind of go a little more into how this relates to the gospel. Yeah. But you know, I think it's really simple. Like you said, your simple bid is, you know, hey, will you come to this with me? You love when people come to you. So that's a simple bid right there. And when someone rejects that, what that says to you subconsciously is, I don't care. Right. It's like, and you subconsciously kind of have a tally of that, of like, okay, well, they they don't value this, which I value. And so they they rejected now that they've rejected your bid, you know, you start to kind of get like you said, you have those frustrations and that resentment that builds up. Yeah. So I just wanted to kind of paint that out, and and so people can kind of see where we're going with this.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And and yeah. I think it's just like I was actually talking to someone at church earlier today about this concept because we were gonna talk about this. And I was telling them that I think that sometimes like God is really just trying to teach us how to have better relationships with everyone. Like if we were like super intentional and put all our energy in towards having a relationship with God, the nuances and the tiny pieces of knowledge that we gain from having that relationship with God would actually teach us how to love other people as well. Because God is so clear with what he expects from us. Like, like, if we're if we don't know what God expects us, it's because we haven't been taking the time to learn his gospel or to commune with him through prayer, scripture study, yada yada. That's like the first thing where things kind of go wrong with God and our relationship with God is we just haven't done our work to know what he wants from us. But anyways, and what I'm trying to get to is like all our all our the success of all our relationships throughout the course of our life are gonna come are gonna be reliant on God, our relationship with God. And if we have a bat a poor relationship with God, I actually firmly believe we would have a poor relationship with subquential people down the line as well.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And so I liked earlier when we were talking about this topic, you said something kind of cool that I liked. You said that commandments are really just God's bids for emotional intimacy. And the reason you have a bid for emotional intimacy is because you were trying to have a stronger relationship with someone and to connect in another way, right? And to have another line of connection. Because a relationship isn't just like a one-time thing, boom, you have one event and you're connected forever. It's it's repeated bids that create more and more connections, right? That become stronger over time, the more bids that are met the way you're expecting, right? And that's why you end up, that's why people say, oh, we grew to love each other, right? Because over time they learn to recognize each other's emotional bids and how to respond to those and to grow together in that love and that emotional intimacy. And so when God reaches out to us, right, with these commandments, this is his bid to say, I want to have a stronger relationship with you. And so that's why when we keep commandments, we keep covenants too. Let's also shift because we are a covenant religion, right? Like let's let's say covenants as well. Covenants are a bid for relational intimacy with God, right? Yeah. And having a stronger connection to him. And I mean, that's where the whole point of the sacrament, why it's also called communion, is because you're entering into a communion with God, right? And so when we keep these commandments, which we covenant to do during that sacrament, right? What we're promising is to have a stronger relationship with our Heavenly Father. And that's what He wants, that's what He desires, so He can bless us more fully, so He can give us more, right? Yeah. And that's where I think sometimes we miss the mark about what commandments are. We think we're doing it to earn our salvation, or we're doing it because we have to to, you know, make someone else happy, but really it's about how we come closer to our Father in heaven.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And I also want to put like the weight of the strength of that relationship and what it means to God in context. So God's like, okay, he asks us go to church every Sunday. That's a commandment of mine. Go worship with my fellow worshipers, right? And God is like, okay, if you do this, this means a lot to me. Like if you could you spend one day really loving me, and you gave that one day to me, there's not many people in this world that give a full day to God. Can you imagine like what that means to God for us to like really use one day? Like, I don't give one day to anyone like outside of like like there's no one in my life where they're like, I need every Monday from you. I don't give that to anyone. Like I give parts of my day to work, to uh hours of my day to certain people, things like that, but never a full day. So that so like God is like, you make me feel so loved when you keep the Sabbath day holy. But then flip that on its head too. Can you imagine like you we know as members of the church that God wants us to make his Sabbath day holy? But then we turn around and we refuse to go to church, which is only part of keeping the Sabbath day holy, or we do things that are more for us and not for God, right? On the Sabbath. And can you imagine what that tells God? It's like, dude, like I give you I gave you seven days a week, essentially. And you can't even give me even part of a day, you can't even give me one full day. Heck, you can't even show up to church for a few hours on my day. Like, yeah, you don't really love me. And like God has to be so forgiving and so patient because like I think back to times where like I asked people to show up for me and they didn't, and like, dude, that r like low-key wrecked me or like really put some serious doubt in my mind if that person really cared about me. Imagine like we as like mortal creatures mess up with God and his commandments on a daily basis, and I'm like, dude, like God should have given up given up on me a long time ago because I am letting him down constantly. So aside from God's character, which we know is perfect, but yeah, it's just like there's a lot of emotion that goes into or what God feels when he asks us to keep commandments. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So what I kind of take away from that and was just thinking about in my head was if we truly say we love God, because a lot of times it's easy to say we love God, right? Yeah, but how like that right there just made me reflect like, how can I show up more and like think and making it personal the way you did of how you've experienced personal devastation at people rejecting your emotional bids for intimacy. And it's like, okay, like now you place that on the scale of a being who is you know the ultimate being, right? He feels more, he knows more, he does more. Exactly. And so it's like just I guess here's I want to put this little analogy, or not an I don't know, story, but just imagine this. What like one of my emotional bids for intimacy or for a relational bids, right? Is I love whenever I I get to host people, right, and have them come over for your food, you know, food or just meet somewhere to eat and do something, just to be with them and talk, right? I love doing that. And nothing hurts more than when you know someone is free, available, right? And they just choose not to. So they're fully capable of attending and doing this, but they choose not to. And I mean that's it works the same in your situation that you gave, right? Of inviting someone to an event, right? Or to a social thing. And to think how that must how that affects me, right? I'm just absolutely like, one, I do become very resentful because I'm like, I know you could have done this, you know this is important to me. And so when we know, and then we still choose to go against, I think sometimes it's good to reflect and think, I don't want to cause if I truly love my heavenly father, why would I want to cause that kind of pain to him? Yeah, you know, why would I want to do that when I wouldn't want that done to me, right? I hate that feeling. And you put that on an eternal scale right now. You kind of can see more just slightly how God may feel as we reject, as his children, his creations, right? Made in his image, given, you know, an opportunity for to progress, to become like him, and when we reject that gift, right? I mean, that's gotta hurt immensely. Yeah. And so I think that's kind of for me right now, what I'm thinking is like, wow, I'm fully capable of repenting every day. I'm fully capable of finding some small way to serve someone else every day. And I'm fully capable of attending my church meetings each week, you know. Yeah. You know? And so when I don't do that, what message am I sending to God? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I also um I I also want to like talk about like why this is motivating to keep commandments. Because there's always levels to how we keep the gospel. Like like obedience is one of them. So sometimes we we like as kids we are obedient because our parents told us to. And then the next step of obedience in our in our gospel journey is we then are obedient because we got baptized. So we're we kind of have a more of an obligation now, right? And then there's like we start to understand that some of the commandments are for our our own protection, like the law of chastity or the word of wisdom. Like, yeah, there's could there can be some harm that can come from not keeping commandments. And then and then I would say like we we have all these steps, right? All that our our understanding of obedience gets deeper and deeper. There's more and more layers to it as we go on. And um, and finally we arrive at I'm obedient because I love God. And one of the one of my favorite talks from this last general conference was actually Loveest Thou Me. And when I heard this, like it made me fall in love with the gospel all over again, is the best way to describe this this part of this talk. And he is actually quoting a uh her name's uh Tamara W. Ruina or Rania. And she said, she said this. She said, even though we don't have perfect obedience yet, try affectionate obedience now, choosing to stay again and again because we love him. And like when I heard that, I was like, I can actually do affectionate obedience. I can't do perfect obedience, but even my little efforts of trying to give God what he wants, like I can do affectionate obedience. Like, and when I fall short, you know what's great is repentance is a commandment from God. So even when we mess up and then we choose to repent, God, we're we're we're loving God all over again, even in our disappointments, you know? And so that was something that really like changed, um, it really flipped the switch for me in general conference, is like no matter no matter how like no matter how I'm doing, like whether I'm doing great or I'm messing up, if I'm just trying to like be obedient and repent, I'm just falling up, dude.
SPEAKER_00:Every failure is an opportunity to succeed in a new way.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. So like, dude, there's no way to fail with God as long as we're we're keeping him close, you know. So like that would that was like the biggest nugget that I pulled away from the conference. So that was a that was a big thing for me. So go and find those things out there that make you fall in love with the gospel all over again. Amen. So but um another just one other thing too, um, as we're talking about this, um one of the most poignant like stories from the New Testament where like Christ is like trying to teach someone this idea of bid for emotional intimacy, is with Peter. When they like Christ has died or and resurrected and went to heaven, and they go back to fishing, dude. Could you imagine?
SPEAKER_00:And guilty. I would have been guilty, dude, of all accounts. Like, I would definitely have been right next to Peter, like, oh heck yeah, man.
SPEAKER_01:And Christ shows up and he's like, Yo, Peter, lovest thou lovest lovest me that or lovest thou meet. Love thou me more than these, and he's like, dude, do you love me more than these fish? And he's like, homie, like, what are you doing? Like, I'm trying to put him in like this story in like context of our day and age, because if I had like a friend, and I'm like, bro, I wanted you at this social event, and you're out here fishing.
SPEAKER_00:Yo, calm down, okay. Look, it happened one time, Morgan. You need to do a whole podcast episode about it. I was kidding.
SPEAKER_01:And then, and then like Peter's like, yeah, I love you. And then Christ is like, do you? Do you love me? And then he's like, then go feed my sheep. And like, I feel like that is like the tugle war that I have with Heavenly Father, with Christ, is like they're like, Morgan, do you love me? Like, give up that stupid sin of yours or give up some of your time. And he's like, and then I'm like, yeah, I I love you. And they're like, Do you? Because like, right now, your actions don't say it. And then I'm like, okay, yes, I really do. They're like, okay, then go repent. Go re give up like an hour of your day, and then go serve the people I've called you to serve. Like, do you really love me? And so that is like the most poignant like lesson I think Christ was trying to get across to Peter. And you and then you saw how it changed Peter from that moment forward. Wow.
SPEAKER_00:I've taken a lot away from this conversation, dude. Like what I can like work on personally, and uh that that's the fishing story with Peter does higher most of them. Because I mean, anyone knows me, dude. I I love just getting out there on the body of water and you know, tearing them up. And so it is like it makes me think of like times I've turned down going to do other things with friends because I'm like, sorry, man, I'm going fishing and you know, just by myself, right? No one's going with me. I don't have any commitment other than to myself, right? And um I just think now, I'm like, wow, like do I really like at the end of the day, like, do I love going out and fishing and you know, and spending time out there, or would I rather have memories and a connection with, you know, my friends or family members who I hope to see in the eternities, right? And I think that's interesting. One of the few things that were promised that we will have in the next life is relationships, right? And so I think it's it's important that we value those now, right? And that we put forth an effort to strengthen our relationships with our not only our friends, but especially our family members and our loved ones, right? Those who are sealed to. Because why would you want to be sealed to someone you don't even have a relationship with?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So that that's kind of the takeaway I took from here.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And now you can see why like this also teaches us how to love others. Like if we're so good at responding to what God makes clear to us on how it makes him feel loved, how much more willing would we then be when people ask us to love them in certain ways? Obviously that are righteous, like with that caveat said, but we would be more willing to do those things. Like, and that's why I think like this is actually a more motivational approach to keeping commandments because no matter What you do, whether you have messed up and you're repenting, or you're actually like being 100% obedient, which none of us truly are, but we're always just falling up. We're always succeeding in our failures with God. The only time we don't do this, the only time we kind of slap God in the face is when we ignore it. Like we like, I'll tell you right now, like, there have been times where I like I felt like I've been ignoring God, either out of pride, out of laziness, out of I just I'm a boy, you know. I'm a boy. Just a boy. And I don't pick up on God's social cues sometimes. And so it's just like I but usually in those moments I know what I was supposed to have done. And I just like and then it eats at me and it eats at me until I finally just turn around and head back back home, you know? So amen, dude. Yeah. Amen. Well, with that said, well flock. With that said, despair not, build upon the rock, do good, and always hear him. Peace.